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example.com760 points · 350 comments · 4 months ago · Cider9986
Cider9986OP
bri3d
limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle: ... over-the-air updates, which provide new ... safety enhancements ...
I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA?
This is a huge unresolved issue with EVs IMO; ICE cars are required to provide emissions-relevant updates over software which can operate using a J2534 passthrough device, which effectively means powertrain modules have to allow (potentially signed) updates over CAN using software that can be obtained by an end user (a lot of people don't know this; for almost any ICE car in the US, you can buy a 3-day or 1-week subscription to the dealership level diagnostic software for a somewhat reasonable fee and use it with a J2534 device).
But for EVs, there's no such rule and as far as I can tell it's entirely a gray area in the US now; the NHTSA require a "remedy" for recalls but nobody seems to have pushed back to determine whether OTA is truly a remedy. The traditional autos all offer dealerships as a backup option, but Tesla and Rivian have several recalls with only OTA remedies already. This seems sketchy.
codedokode
Smart cars can record street views, location of WiFi access points and GSM towers, and this data is useful for guiding missiles and drones when GPS is being jammed.
And how can we deal with this? Inspections on import? Country-level DPI to block data exfiltration? But DPI is not perfect because there are obfuscation and VPNs. And today we have Starlinks as well, which are difficult to block. Except from banning foreign smart cars altogether, there seems to be no simple solution. Or maybe oblige the manufacturer to use local computer boards and software when importing cars?
jryio
Glad it's an option be it for regulatory compliance, security, privacy, or any combination of the three.
fainpul
I've seen this pattern before. It's a lame cop-out. "Of course you can do that, but you'll have to accept all these negative consequences. There's nothing we can do about it. You brought this onto yourself."
jamilbk
Kudos to Rivian for making this a supported user privacy feature.
janice1999
retired
Second thing is to do a factory reset on the infotainment and press "deny" on anything.
Third thing is to use a USB sanitizer so plugging in the USB-port doesn't sync any of my data with the car or initiate a pairing.
Final thing is to check tire pressure, unrelated to above but 9 out of 10 times the tire pressure on rental cars is incorrect. I have a little pen tester in my travel kit.
__fst__
Sophira
For anyone in the same situation, https://web.archive.org/web/20260430234304/https://rivian.co... leads to the correct page.
girvo
cantalopes
nloomans
Website redirects to the regional homepage instead of showing the actual article. I don't get why this is still a thing.
pokstad
exabrial
Cell connected vehicles are unnecessary and a danger for so many reasons.
1970-01-01
VortexLain
beAbU
dlev_pika
limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle (e.g., navigation, lane keeping assistance (…)
Curious why lane keeping assistance would need to communicate externally. Isn’t all this processed in the vehicle?
Streamables
atoav
That includes positional data, speed, whether you're pressing the gas pedal or braking etc. Since it is meant as a Car-to-Car solution, e.g. to warn other cars when there is an accident the reach isn't great, but some of the signals (e.g. warning of a traffic jam) may be propagated by other cars.
See this German talk on the European system: https://media.ccc.de/v/glt26-688-c-its-mit-einem-esp32-ampel...
I think they have a English translation or dub somewhere
Alifatisk
it will also limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle (e.g., navigation, active lane centering, and over-the-air updates, which provide new features, better performance, safety enhancements, and bug fixes).
I fear this trend in the automotive industry will only complicate things further and introduce more unnecessary risk in our daily life. Is it too much to ask for a dumb car which is durable and takes me from point A to point B? I do not want my future car to be dependent on the manufacturers CI/CD pipeline.
skilning
livinglist
ibejoeb
For non-Canadian vehicles, you may reach out to Rivian Service to request that we disable the eSIM card in the vehicle through a service appointment.
Why is that? I really don't want to bring it to the shop to turn off the radio. In Canada it's a toggle in the settings. Is there Canadian legislation mandating this or something?
phil_kahrl
Svoka
Can someone provide what needs these feature covers? Like, what are some reason to disable all internet connectivity?
I am genuinely curious.
ge96
brokenmachine
whichken
p_ing
Happy I did, along with the ANC/fake engine noise modules.
My phone still tracks me :-)
sigmar
up2isomorphism
traderj0e
dmitrygr
> Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?
replace cell antenna with a 50ohm resistor. you can buy the proper connector on mouser.combiosboiii
Disabling the eCall is not possible, and doing so (in the EU) would void your car's registration.
baggachipz
amelius
egberts1
rubatuga
WaxProlix
[deleted]
spl757
greed
bilsbie
m463
h4kunamata
This was decades and decades ago, imagine now??
When I bought a 2025 Suzuki Jimny XL, I wanted a car, not a computer on wheels.
- physical buttons everywhere
- head unit is the only touch screen
- Non-invasive safety features
- No firmware update
- No internet connection
- No enshitification
It is what cars used to be back in the day with minor modern touch like LED headlight. Its headlight does not have direct connection to the ECU.
Toyota cars, especially the new ones can be stolen by breaking the headlight and using its harness to talk with the ECU. Virtually speaking, all Toyota cars are being stolen like hotcake in Australia.
People buying these EVs do not understand how deep it goes buying a car you do not own.
Testa has done this over and over, removed features from the car via OTA update. Car was never meant to be a computer on wheel.
jmward01
Having ranted a bit though, in the world of car companies an official policy on how to turn data off is amazing. The bar is so low right now that it is crazy to think this terrible implementation riddled with dark patterns is a 'win'. These companies need to be shut down.
b3lvedere
Vehicle connectivity is a core feature .. blah blah blah"
I absolutely hate these kind of answers. I understand why the answer is written that way, but i truly hate it to the core. They are marketing speak/CYA answers.
Why i hate it? Because i do not mind the communication, but i absolotely do mind the collecting and harvesting.
I don't want to lose connectivity. I want to lose all the effing data harvesting. I don't mind leaving data and using navigation, but i do not want the data effing harvested.
I want to have phone calls, but i do not want my calls logged for a long time so that these logs can be abused in any form by someone or something.
ALL of these features do NOT need long time logging for it to function.
This pay-with-your-privacy system has to stop.
[deleted]
tzm
dackdel
cyberax
ghssds
varenc
For non-Canadian vehicles, you may reach out to Rivian Service to request that we disable the eSIM card in the vehicle through a service appointment.
I certainly appreciate that disabling network connectivity is even possible, but a bit scummy that non-Canadians have to make an in-person service appointment.
Is there some Canadian law at play here that requires they permit Canadians to disable this easily from the GUI? Would love legislation like that in the US.
[deleted]
sciencesama
senectus1
Hope to see more of this.
simpaticoder
Cider9986OP
It sounds to me like this is more akin to the Cellular Data toggle on Android as opposed to Aeroplane mode. If that is the case, it will presumably not prevent your vehicle from connecting to cellular base stations, which means your vehicle will still be trackable by network operators.
(https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/rivian-allows-you-to-dis...)
(https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/arti...)
Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. [Their privacy policy] includes your “sexual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “sex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.”